Hi there, my name is Abbey Judd and I work for the nonprofit Civic Arts. And this is Art Nerd City Nerd Podblog. That's right. A combination of a podcast plus a blog. After you listen to the podcast, you can follow up on our website at www.civicarts.org, where we have lots of great content to help expand on today's podcast.

The Art Nerd City Nerd Podblog series is about creative placemaking, which is the practice of using arts and culture strategies to support equitable community development. We'll be talking about how folks like you, artists, arts organizations, community members, or local government staff can serve your communities in innovative and creative ways. Cities all over the country are looking for new tools to address community problems and challenges, and creative placemaking is an opportunity to equitably address those issues.

Civic Arts is an arts and urban planning consulting firm. We envision a world where arts and culture are fully embedded in the way we build our towns and cities, and we're all are invited with their full selves to our civic spaces. On today's podcast, we're going to be talking with Civic Arts founder and executive director, Dr. Lynn Osgood. She'll be sharing about some of the foundational aspects of creative placemaking and how the field has developed over the past 10 years.

Abbey Judd: On today's podcast where we will continue our conversation with civic guards Founder and Executive Director, Dr. Lynn Osgood. And today, we're going to be discussing different project mechanics that go into creative placemaking projects. In our last few episodes, we talked about how creative placemaking projects come together and how that might differ from the way typical local government projects might happen. Now that we have a better understanding of what makes these projects unique. Lam, can you help us think through some of the mechanics of getting a project started and off the ground? How do you match resources with needs? And how do you partner with arts organizations as a municipal entity, and how do you identify resources to work with them?

Lynn Osgood: Thanks, Abbey, that those are really like the critical questions that you just identified, partnering resources and really just fundamentally identifying needs.

I think in our conversations up till now; we've been talking a bit about how it is that working with artists and bringing in art strategies can really help what it is that a city is trying to achieve. And some of the primary ways that we've identified that the arts can these strategies can help or by helping to match the right solutions to the real issues, cultivating the community's identity and social fabric, expanding and deepening networks of community relationships, and enhancing community communication and input across lots of different civic processes. And fundamentally, just offering new perspectives on issues that staff may not have thought of before. So, so fundamental to all these impacts that the arts can have is that it's about connecting to communities in new ways. And so, for municipal staff, the trick is setting up a system where the municipal ways of connecting with communities can work together with our strategies and help that happen.

Often when talking about new ideas, there's an effort to say like, well, let's throw the baby out with the bathwater. I don't believe that. We need traditional municipal ways of engaging communities. But they're not fully working the way that folks want them to. We need other strategies. And artists can help us get there to address some of those needs. So if we think through projects and how they can roll out, there are lots of different ways that creative placemaking projects can happen. They can be events or programs; they can even be policy initiatives. But lots of folks start through the placemaking angle, so we can think of that angle.

One of the first things that needs to happen in a place that is making an effort is to identify resources that are there, what the resources are on the ground, and how those are harnessed. Now, the trick is that in a creative placemaking project, if you're connecting with the community in deeper and authentic ways, you need to be able to identify those resources in creative ways and the way that the community sees those resources. These aren't always the traditional ways that we look at resources as municipal staff. We may think of libraries and parks and schools and all that we put in our GIS systems. But if we take the example that we talked about last time, the Willowbrook cultural asset mapping project, that's a wonderful way of framing how artists can help identify community assets with cultural assets with the community, and they may be both tangible and intangible. They can be the way that folks come together through a community fall festival or the school community garden that so many contributed to. And that really is the focus for a lot of community networks. Or it may be the neighbor with the best rose studded altar to the Virgin Mary that everyone is proud of, but it really sets the tone for what the neighborhood is about. And what do they think of as beautiful as beautiful spaces? All of these assets will come into play when supporting the development or the redevelopment of a place in a community that that feels genuine and authentic. We have to be able to go there in order to make the project real and grounded.

It would seem that there's a lot of processes that have to undergird that asset mapping and moving forward within a city process to really figure out how to do that well and incorporate that into a city project.

Yes, there is. I think this is where it becomes really critically important to bring in artists to look at things in new ways and to help the community give voice to what they think is fundamentally important. That needs to happen in parallel with the ways that cities traditionally go out and look at the assets, what's available for a project, and then see how they can harness that and move forward. So again, it's never about one system or the other. It's about bringing them into relationship together. But then it gets into the project management. So how do you do that? What are the first steps? I think for that, the question is how do you work with artists and arts organizations?

So cultural asset mapping can really help the city and other partners see a community through the assets or the things that a community values the most about itself, and also simultaneously build those relationships and build that trust. For community projects and tackling more entrenched issues, this seems kind of like a long-term investment.

It is. And I think this is where, as municipal staff, we so often see projects in these discrete buckets. Like, here's a project, here's a project, here's a project. And this is really about building those long-term relationships that long-term staff didn’t know were there. I also want to underline this about that these projects: If you're going to tackle really tough issues, you need the relationships. You need trust. But these relationships are also really important for those things that are not quite so heavy, that are about pride and joy and identity. The wonderful thing about working with artists is that just as much as they can help us deal with difficult issues, they can help us deal with the enchanting issues as well. And that's a fundamental part of it. Being a community that, as city staff, we also want to invest in. It all starts with stepping out of the traditional ways that we understand municipal goals. Working with artists as partners really helps us approach the way that we work with communities in new and inventive ways.

And that really gives a whole other toolkit or just different options for engaging with community members through the arts.

Yeah, exactly.

If we're working with artists who can help us build trust and networks and innovative strategies with community processes, what are the main first steps as to how to approach these projects with artists?

I think that's a great question and, you know, very pragmatic. What is the first step I take? And I was actually talking with someone the other day, saying like, “Okay, well, the first step is to go and talk with an arts organization.” And she said to me, “Well, that's great, but I don't even know what to say to them.” I thought that was such a wonderful response. Because yes, these are untraditional ways of working. And I think this is a really important thing to underline as well.

It's really important to bring in artists and arts organizations as partners because they're going to help look at things in different ways there. But then not to assume that they know the exact answer right away. They are not “providers” in the traditional sense, where, you know, we just as municipal staff say, “Here's a package, here's a budget. You go do the thing, and I'm going to manage the larger process, and it'll be done.” You're really co-creating a process together and giving room for that to happen. You can imagine a conversation unfolding where you send out an email and say like, “Hey, could you get together to have a brainstorming conversation around these issues that we're working with?”

Say we go back to the park example, working to develop a pocket park in an area that desperately needs one. You know, just sit down and just simply say, “These are the issues that we're working with. This is the challenge as I see it as a planner, as a staff person, as a budget analyst.” Then ask them, “How do you see the issue?” And what will be fascinating is, my guess, you probably have identified someone who is working in the area where they may be doing community programs with residents. They may have a completely different perspective on it and care about the exact same thing together. Then you share with them well, as is city staff, this is the process we were going to follow in order to get to our end result. And then they can share with you. Well, that's interesting as an artist. These are some of the things that we've been doing to look at the same issue of public space and expression and placemaking and identity. And, you listen to that, and then you say, “ What can we do to bring these things together?” “How is it that we could create a process that would both get at our meet our needs that we have as a city for engagement, but then also bringing the ways that you all are working?” And don't assume that there's a pat answer. Assume that in that conversation, you're going to invent something new and specific to that project, to that situation that you may not have heard of before.

That's the magic that happens. That's what you're looking for. You're creating the space for those new and inventive ways to emerge, and they're going to emerge at that table with you and the artist in conversation.

So a lot is riding on that kind of initial conversation with an artist or an arts organization to kind of determine what is possible.

Well, actually, that's interesting because yes, you know, there's a lot you want to begin a conversation with. But it's also an investment in a relationship because again, in any municipal context, you say, like, “I'm going to identify the provider, we're going to decide on a scope of services and then go and then I'll manage the project.” But in this, you're actually investing just like you want to invest in long-term relationships with the community. You are investing in a co-creative process with the artists or arts organization. And it's going to be about that first conversation, but that first conversation is the one that you're going to be working with throughout the entire process.

I assume one of the wonderful things that artists bring to municipal processes is that they help us respond in a healthier way to emergent circumstances. This has been particularly palpable in the age of COVID. And when so much changes so rapidly or there are social justice movements that go with that we're working with right now. Things need to happen at a city level that needs to be responded to very, very quickly. And artists have a basic skill set of doing that, that as municipal staff, we don't. It's harder.

Assume that that first conversation is going to be the first of many and that as each step along the way, you're going to be saying, “Okay, that was great. And now what do we do?” “Okay, that was an interesting circumstance that evolved. Here's what I need to have happen on the city side. What would you do as an artist side?” Let's face it. That is out of your sort of scope in tiny little increments, but let it emerge together, and you're investing in that long-term relationship that'll be in that project and the ones beyond.

In that process of developing more long-term relationships, it seems like identifying resources or funding for these projects is a really critical component.

Yeah. And then, So here, we get down to the nitty-gritty and the brass tacks. It is about investing in those relationships. Those relationships are an asset. Always think of them like that. It's not just it's not transactional. It's a relationship that you're investing in, which is a part of the project's resources. That's fundamental. But then beyond that, yes, we need cash to make these function. So I have to say. Unfortunately, there is no magic source. There's no little magic rock that you can lift up and find the quarter-million-dollar supply. That doesn't exist. So the fiscal resourcing for these projects, I think of as both traditional and non-traditional ways and ways that happened both inside and outside the system.

If we're looking outside the municipal system and traditional ways, then you look at state funding from the historic commission or the arts commission. You may look at local philanthropic support, you're actually taking that arts angle, and you're saying, “Hey, we are working with arts organizations to do this thing. This is the municipal goal, but we're doing it as an arts project,” and you take that angle. If you're looking for outside funding from non-traditional sources, that's where you want to start framing things differently. Then you say, “Oh, well actually, this isn't an arts project at all. It's an open space project. It's a public access project,” to folks that maybe are concerned about civic engagement, public safety, or mobility. Or maybe they're concerned about park space or food access. Go to those funders and talking with excitement about how you are addressing their key issue, one: with our strategies and two: that you've already had these conversations with the community, you've done some cultural asset mapping, you've done some trust-building. When you present that, particularly to philanthropy, they can hear the genuineness of authentic networks, of authentic expression of goals. Those are the types of things that they're more likely to invest in.

Those are the outside sources, and there are some big ones there. There's the National Endowment for the Arts or foundations such as Kresge, who do give larger grants. But what I found is that for those larger sums of money, it's very hard to just have an idea and then get funding. You usually have to slowly build, and it just as you do for local philanthropy, it shows that you have trusted networks with the communities that you've invested in, that cultural asset mapping that you've invested in those relationships with the local arts organizations. Then they say, “Oh, now we know they get it and can respond with the larger amounts.” So that's if you're looking at the outside system.

If you're looking inside again, I think you can look at things traditionally non-traditionally. If you are looking for traditional pots of money, monies that are already allocated and that you want to then bring into a creative placemaking project. The trick is to look carefully in terms of strategic goals and budget outcomes and goals because what you want to do is frame what you're doing. And to say we are meeting those goals and those outcomes, just in different ways. So an example is, say you're working with a local project, you're developing a small part, and you have $5,000 to give to outreach and marketing. Well, say, “Okay, that's our budget. And this is what we're going to do. We're actually going to scope that differently. And we're going to work with a local organizing arts organization to actually create a scope that gets at our same goals or same outcomes. But we know that they're going to do it in totally new and inventive ways. And then, that there will probably also be an art product that comes out at the end.”

Maybe it's a small mural. Maybe it's a small performance. Maybe it's a digital Xen or something that lives online. But you work within that framework of existing outcomes and goals. You've just worked a frame differently. If you're working in non-traditional ways, then what I find is that we can go along one of two axes: You can take a basic function and look at it in a new way. Or you can take a basic function and look at it in a bigger way. So if you're taking a basic function and you're making it bigger, you can take an existing contract and figure out how to fit artists in there. So, for example, let's say you're building this, this parklet, you're going to have a design contract.

You can make sure that you're working with a designer that is open to working with artists, excited to work with artists. Ask them and figure out ways to bring that in under their scope. And then again, you always want to be engaged, which means that you have a third partner in that collaboration, that co-visioning process. So just as you were sitting there at that table talking with someone from the arts organization, imagine a third chair pulling up in the designer sitting there. You're figuring out the scope and how it can work under the existing contract. So that's taking like a basic contract and just making it a little bigger. You can take a basic contract and look at it in new and innovative ways.

I've seen cities put out contracts for community engagement on a project, but instead of framing it as community engagement, they framed it as community cultural engagement. So it wasn't just public input. They explicitly said, “We want to work on a smaller scale with arts organizations to help give input for this project.” So again, I have found that cities are successful in taking traditional project types. And doing them in innovative ways, or doing them in bigger ways, but not doing them in bigger and innovative ways. That takes something from the mayor on high saying, “You know, I give my blessing and go do this.” But even if you can, I would go gently. You're not only bringing innovation to a project, but you're changing the way that you do work. And that happens in small incremental steps. So I'd say one step at a time.

Are there any questions that you would like people to think about or take away from today's conversation?

I think that a couple of questions. One question would be to think of, almost on a gut reaction or gut level, where is it in your municipal organization that you could see that opportunity for different funding? Is it in reframing existing contracts? Is it in making an existing contract a little bit bigger and bringing in an artist underneath that? There are opportunities there. Just giving yourself the headspace to think about that for 20 minutes, see where an opportunity comes in, and then take that and explore it with others.

The other thing I would say to leave the conversation with is to also give yourself room to imagine as city staff. We have so much that's going on, there's so much to do, we have our huge checklists. And we tend to think of things like okay, I have to go talk with an arts organization, check. It's on my list. I'm going to go do it and done.

Give yourself the space to approach it with the same mind that artists approach their work. And imagine into it. Imagine contacting an arts organization, and what is the table that you're sitting at? What is the first thing that you say? What is the first thing that they say? What are you looking at while you're saying this? What are the images that are coming to your mind and maybe the memories that are coming to their mind? And how do those all play together and play out the conversation in your mind? Let yourself be in that space because that little tiny five minutes of imagining practice is what it is the artists will invite you into. Because as they talk about their ideas and their visions, they're going to think about it in very tangible ways, which is actually how trust is built because it's real and it's connected, and it's authentic. And so, just so prepare yourself for that and enjoy that. Because as city staff, we know we deal with huge problems and that the ways we have for dealing them with them right now are not always the ways that build trust or success. And to invite that into our processes, we have to invite different methods, and that's just imagining is a great way to prepare yourself to invite that in.

Well, thank you so much, Lynn.

Thank you, Abbey.